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TSHIBUMBA, HISTOIRE DU ZAIRE Fourth Session of November 21, 1974 Narrative 4 |
TSHIBUMBA, HISTOIRE DU ZAIRE Fourth Session of November 21, 1974 Narrative 4 |
| 1. F: kumbe leo: tunapatana tena mara moya: na ile matableaux ya mwisho: ulikuwa nayo/ T: c'est ça/ F: eeh/ T: matableaux ya mwisho: F: mm/ T: ile nalikuwa nayo: nakuletea/ ii ni: le vingt juin martyrs: de l'économie nationale/ [Painting 96: The Matyrs of the Economy] c'est que ni mambo alifanikwa: ilikuwa sawa vile: fasi ilikuwaka zamani stade ya Gécamines: balipomona ile fasi sababu balipata mali chini: baliyengapo: puits cinq/ na ile puits cinq: pa kusema inamalizike: mu juin septante deux: bamineurs banaanzia kutumika mule ndani: balipata accident: c'est que: chini mule: sababu mu kazi yabo shijue binye bilipomoka: iliua bamineurs sita/ na mineur moya alikatika: kifuno1 / ni kweli kwa kusikia ile habari: Président ya République Mobutu: alikuyaka mu safari: nawazia kama ni mugini gani: nazani: nasahabu: alitokaka directement mule: kupitia: mpaka Lubumbashi: mpaka Kipushi/ juu ya kuya kuona: mambo ile ilipita: na kusalimia: benyee balipata mateso/ F: mm/ T: na: makuta ingine ilikabuli: ilikabuliwa ku bale ba: balipata mateso: babibi yabo na bale ba: mineurs/ F: mm/ T: na vile ali: rudia/ siku kidogo: ule mineur moja alipata accident ya kuvunjika kifuno: alikufwaka nayee/ bon: nazania njo ile niko naye juu ya ii: tableau/ F: mm/ T: na makaburi yabo: iko sasa mu Kipushi: F: mm/ T: kama unafika utakutanisha makaburi yabo ?inaingiwa na Gécamines/ F: ile wakati wee uliona: hii mambo? T: ile wakati nilikuwa mu Likasi mi/ F: mm/ bon/ |
1. So, today we are meeting one more time [to talk about] those last paintings you brought along. T: That's it. F: Yes. T: The last paintings. F: Mm-hmm. T: What I had I brought you. This is [reading from painting]: "June 20, The Martyrs of the National Economy [Painting 96: The Martyrs of the Economy]. It's about something that happened. The place is where the Gécamines stadium used to be. They tore it down because they had found ore in the ground, and that's where they built pit 5. And when pit 5 was declared finished, in June '72, and the miners began their work down there, they had an accident. I don't know what went wrong down there with their work but it killed six miners, and one other broke his ankle. When he heard the news, the President of the Republic, Mobutu, happened to be travelling -- I can't think of which town he was in, I forgot -- and left immediately from wherever he was to go to Lubumbashi, to Kipushi. He wanted to see what had happened and greet the bereaved. F: Mm-hmm. T: And some money was distributed among the people who had suffered, the wives of those miners. F: Mm-hmm. T: Then [the president] left.1 Not long after that, the one miner who was in the accident and broke his ankle also died. Alright. I think that is what I have to say about this painting. F: Mm-hmm. T: And their graves are now in Kipushi. F: Mm-hmm. T: If you go there you will find their graves [near] the entrance to the Gécamines [compound]. F: Did you see it happen? T: At that time I was in Likasi. F: Mm, alright. |
| 2. T: hii tableau: inaonyesha kama: [with a chuckle] rêve mystérieux de l'artiste Tshibumba Kanda Matulu/ [Painting 97: The Key to the Future] ni kweli/ sawa vile tulisumbulia: ile siku/ F: mm/ T: ulinielezea asema utaweza kunipatia avenir: ya inchi/ F: mm/ T: nazania avenir ya inchi: F: [aside to someone else?] il va montrer/ T: avenir ya inchi ni kintu moya mukubwa sana/ tunaonaka bale banasemaka avenir ya inchi iko sawa baprophètes: savant ataweza kuwaza: kwa lakini ataweza kusema nayee vilevile/ mimi nalikwenda ndani nyumba naliwaza namna yangu yote: nilishinda/ niliparvenir kulala: naweka poste yangu ya radio: ku kichwa ya kitanda/ sasa bushingishi bulinikamata/ na kisha bushingishi kunikamata: nalilota bintu moja: paka juu ya ile mawazo ..?.. aseme nipate avenir: kama itakuyaka je/ nalishinda kabisa/ nilisikia tu musique: ilianza kuimba: ilikuwa déjà minuit/ F: mm/ T: ya busiku/ musique mu kuimba: na ndoto ilinibeba: nalilota: ii nyumba sawa ivi unaiona/ nali: shikuona kama ni nyumba: sawa ku ndoto: na ile marangi naweka: ni bintu yote ya ku ndoto: aikalake fixe/ utaona: namna ingine tu/ sasa musique ile banaanza kuimba ilikuwa révolution ya bushiku: sasa banaanza kuimba mimbo moya: ya: cent ans tumutuombe2 ile Mobutu/ bon: sasa ile: mawazo ile: naliona ii masquelettes ilianza kutoka: ku ile nyumba huku na ngambo na ngambo/ F: mm/ T: asa: iko nakuya/ ile ni kulia kwa: kuimba kule kulianza kuimba ilikuwa masauti ya banamuke: ilikuwa ngambo ya nyumba kule/ asa bushingishi bunaisha kunibeba: nalota ile squelettes/ bon: ilitembea: inatembea: inatembea: weee: minaanza kukimbia/ mi mu kimbia kabisa kabisa: nikimbia nalota kamugini kamoja/ na ile tableau ya kamukini kamoja: inabaki kwangu/ iko kule kwangu/ bananilamuka asubui: nilisema nitumike pa nguo yangu: tu niweke mu?...?.../ unaona squelette inashimama: kiisha: baliimba tena kama ni mwimbo moja ilinilamusha na kunilamusha: ya: Tabu Ley aliimbakayo zamani: soki okutani na Lumumba: okuloba nini/ sasa na mi naliwaza ile: ma ile rêves ile ?fika: sawa hivi: d'après authenticité: kama unalota: tuko na ya vivre ya maésprits tuseme/ shee ba: baAfricains/ F: mm/ T: tuko nacroyer: maésprits yetu tuseme/ na mi naliwaza kama: ii kintu tunasema: kama unazidi kuendelea: utafika wapi: utakwenda kutanishana: na Lumumba/ utamuelezea nini? c'est que miliwazia kama: nitaweza kufungwa par example ou bien nini itaweza kunitokea: naliongopa na kuongopa/ et puis: nalikuwa kuwaza: kisha yake: nali: tosha ile tableau sawa nakuonyesha: iko kwangu ku nyumba: kama utaenda Kipushi utaikuta/ iko ni ya kutoboka kidogo vile/ F: mm/ T: na squelette munene: ile wakati alisimama tu: minalamuka: naanza kuelezea bibi yangu/ tena nilikuwa boka mingi kabisa kabisa/ asa niliwaza makufanya: minashinda/ njo minawaza non: comme ça: nitatumika ile tableau: paka mu namna ndoto yangu ilikuya/ sababu ni kintu baliniuliza kuko monsieur Fabian: nitaweza kufanya: avenir/ bon: mu kupita kuwaza: minakwenda kulota bintu sawa/ na mi: siwaze hata kintu moja: nawaza tu mambo ya mastajabu: pale basquelettes balianza kutoka mule/ ku busingisi nalikimbia mbio kabisa/ na vile nalishutuka: beko naimba ile: mwimbo/ kashama nkoi/ njo ile mwimbo inyee balianza kuimba/ F: kashama nkoi/ T: kasha mankoi: ni disque ya Tabu Ley/ F: mm/ T: asa: mu kusema Lingala sawa mu Kiswahili ata: alisema: soki okutani na Lumumba: okulo banini? njo kusema alafu kama sasa unakutanishana na Lumumba: utasema nini? bon: minashutuka ku bushingishi: naelezea bibi yangu/ F: eeh/ |
2. This picture shows [with a chuckle] something like [reads from painting] "The Mysterious Dream of the Artist Tshibumba Kanda Matulu" [Painting 97: The Key to the Future]. Really, it goes back to our conversation the other day. F: Mm-hmm. T: What you told me was: "Could you give me the future of the country?" F: Mm-hmm. T: I think, the future of the country... F: [Aside to someone else] ... his going to show ... T: ... the future of the country is something of great importance. We usually regard those who foretell the future of the country as prophets. A scholar can think about it, and he, too, can speak out about it. So I went inside my house and thought [about it] in every way I could, but I failed. Finally, I grew tired and I put my radio at the head of my bed. Then sleep took hold of me and I dreamed of this and that, always with the idea that I should receive the future, but was it going to happen? I failed miserably. I listened to the music that was playing, it was already midnight. F: Mm-hmm. T: As the music was playing it brought me a dream. I dreamed this building, the way you see it. I didn't really see that it was a building, it was in a dream; and the colors I chose, all this was in the dream, and it did not sit still. I2 would look, and there it appeared differently again. Now, the music they began to sing -- it was the night program about the Revolution3 -- they began to sing a song "Let us pray for a hundred years for Mobutu." Alright. Now, the vision I had4 was this: There were those skeletons that were coming out of this building, here and there, on both sides. F: Mm-hmm. T: Then this one [here] approaches. Then mournful singing started in female voices; that was there, on the side of the building. So sleep had gotten hold of me and I dreamed of those skeletons. Alright, they just kept walking around, and I started to run away. Running away like mad, I came in my dream to a small village. The painting of that little villages is still at home. It's in my house. I was woken up in the morning and told myself: I am going to put this on my canvas, I am going to put ...?.... You see the skeleton standing up. Then they played another song that really woke me up, a song that Tabu Ley used to sing long ago: soki okutani na Lumumba: okuloba nini. Now I though about those dreams that came to me in the light of authenticity: If you dream [it means that] we, lets say we as Africans, live with the spirits. F: Mm-hmm. T: Let's say we believe in our spirits. And I thought about the saying we have: If you go too far, where will you get to? You are going to meet Lumumba, what will you tell him? So I thought that I may be locked up, for instance, or whatever may happen to me, and I was really scared. And then I thought about it and finally I came up with a picture I could show you. It is in my house, when you go to Kipushi you will find it there. It is a bit provocative.5 F: Mm-hmm. T: Now the tall skeleton just stood upright at the time. Then I woke up and began to tell my wife about it. Also, I was full of fear. When I thought about other paintings I could do, I failed to come up with any. Then I thought: No, I'll do that painting exactly as the dream that came to me. Because what Mr. Fabian asked me was whether I could do the future. Alright. While such thoughts went through my head, I set out to dream what was asked for. Actually, I did not consciously think anything, the ideas I had came as a surprise, such as when those skeletons appeared there. In my sleep I ran as fast as I could and I was startled to hear that they were singing this song "Kashama Nkoi." That was the song they began to sing. F: Kashama Nkoi? T: Kashama Nkoi, it's a record by Tabu Ley. F: Mm-hmm. T: Now, speaking in Lingala as [we would do] in Swahili he said: soki okutani Lumumba: okuloba nini? Which is to say: I you were to meet Lumumba now, what would you say to him? Alright. I woke up with a start and told my wife about it. |
| 3. T: sasa: F: ..?... T: asubui tena: nalishinda na kazi namna ya kutumika tu: sikuwe na idee tena ata moya apana/ njo naliwaza: minasema voilà: sawa vile: ile ndoto unanielezea vile eh? na mi naliwaza bon: nitapima kutumika: mu namna yangu/ F: mm/ T: nilikamata pinceau: aikuwezekana apana/ nilipima tableau sawa hivi unaona: [Painting 98: The World of Tomorrow] haina [chuckles] maana: haina kichwa tuseme: haina tu butamu ya tableau: mais: haina na style: naliwaza kama: dunia: sawa: mu inchi yetu twiko: itakuwa na batu: mingi/ minajua muzuri/ ni mbele kule tutakwenda/ na bale bantu kama banakuya mingi: c'est que: batoto banamuke: bote haba tuko nabo: bataharibika tu/ akuna: akutakuwa mariage/ kutakuya: muntu: wala ni katoto kadogo kanamuke: atabeba/ kutakuwa muntu: tutoto tutaachiliwa mu mbalambala/ bantu: batakuwa mingi: chakula itakuya matata/ c'est que hakutakuya tu: organisation: ku bantu/ c'est que bantu batakuwa sawa mazimu/ F: mm/ T: kutakuwa bengine: bataanza kunywa drogue: njo itakuyako tu/ tutapoteza na njia inyewe tuseme/ |
3. T: Now ... F: ...?... T: ... in the morning I could not work again, I did not have a single idea how to go about the task. That was when I thought: Here you are, there is this dream, and there is what you told me. Alright, I will try to do this my way. F: Mm-hmm. T: I picked up a brush, but it was impossible. I made an attempt with a painting like the one you see here [Painting 98: The World of Tomorrow]. [With a chuckle] It has no clear message, let's say it has nothing that keeps it together, nor does it have the savor a picture should have, in short, it has no style. What I thought was that the world, like our country here, will be full of people, I know this quite well. That is what we are heading for. And those people, when there are so many of them, it means that all our young women will simply be destroyed. There will be no more marriage. What will happen is that a person, even a small girl will be taken along by someone. A person, little children will be abandoned on the street. People will be many and food will be difficult to get, because the people will be disorganized, they will be like madmen. F: Mm-hmm. T: Some will smoke drugs, that is what is going to happen. Let's say we will simply lose our way. |
| 4. mais/ kupoteza njia inyee itapoteza ni ya Mungu/ asa akut: akuna tena muntu ataanza kucroyer: kama Mungu huyu: ekoako: ata/ minazania: ndani ya maéglises/ par example ndani ya maéglises: tutapoteza maéglises/ ile maéglises tutapotea namna gani? [rummaging, aside] pardon monsieur Fabian/ F: mm/ T: ile maéglises itapotea namna gani? [aside] ts: ndani ...?.../ maéglises itapotea: asema: ita: rudia tu mu jina ya MPR: njo itakuya Mungu umu mu Zaire/ c'est que bantu bote: batakuwa na idée paka: kwa: kwa Mobutu/ mareligions itapotea sawa hivi nakuonyesha/ [Painting 99: The End of Religion] ile manyumba itakuwa matemples/ F: mm/ T: du parti/ itakuwa iko inaim: naimbiwa: mimbo ya révolution: mimbo yote hii sawa vile tuko naye sasa hapa: bantu bataanza kwenda mule ndani na kucheza/ na finalement: sijue vile Mungu nayee: F: mm/ T: sijue nayee vile Mungu: atawazaka juu ya ile mambo itapita mingi vile/ akutakuwa tu dunia sawa nakuelezea/ ile manyumba ya Mungu yote itakuwa matemples du parti/ F: mm/ T: na bantu bataanza kuimba mule: kunywa pombe: nakufurahi/ mais: atujue: mufano Mungu nayee: atawaza/ na kama ni mwisho wa dunia: tuko naenda: shee bote: atujue/ njo mawazo ya ...?...kuwa naye/ F: mm/ |
4. But what will get lost is God's way. Then no one will believe any more that God even exists. I think that this will happen in the churches, we will lose the churches. How are we going to lose the churches? [Rummaging as he looks for next picture, aside] Sorry, Mr. Fabian. F: Mm-hmm. T: How are those churches going to be lost? [Aside, impatient] Ts ...?... That the churches will be lost means that they simply will be taken over in the name of the MPR, it will be God here in Zaire. All the people will only have ideas that come from Mobutu. The religions will be lost, as I am showing it to you [Painting 99: The End of Religion]. Those buildings will be temples -- F: Mm-hmm. T: of the Party. What will happen is that revolutionary songs will be sung, all those songs like the ones we have now. People will begin to dance in there, and in the end, I don't know how God himself ... F: Mm-hmm. T: ... I don't know how God will think about all that's going to happen. The world will not be as I have been explaining it to you. All those houses of God will be temples of the Party. F: Mm-hmm. T: And people will sing there, drink beer, and have a good time. But we don't know how God is going to think [about that]. And whether it is the end of the world we are heading for, none of us knows. That was a thought I had. F: Mm-hmm. |
| 5. T: sawa vile nalikuelezea: nazani muntu: ataanza kuingia ndani ya nyumba ya Mungu: sawa nilisema akuna na kufanya: ataanza kutwanga magoti/ na ataanza kusali/ [Painting 100: "I Believe in Mobutu, Almighty Father"] kwa jina ya Mungu: ataanza kusema: kwa jina ya Mobutu/ sawa je crois en Mobutu le père tout puissant/ shi kusema bule sawa hivi nataya: kwa sababu hata sasa inaisha kuonekana kidogo: kuko mimbo ya religion catholique par example: iko na: iko naimbiwa/ sawa mwimbo moya banasema: ilianza kuimbwa mbele hivi/ [sings] namsadiki Mungu baba: mwenyezi: muumba wa mbingi na dunia/ bon: sasa banegeuza: bengine banaanza kusema: [sings] namsadiki Kuku Ngwendu: Mobutu: Sese Seko wa Zabanga/ F: mm/ T: unashikia: njo na mi niliwaza: kama avenir itakuya: muntu yote atapoteza tu: njia ya: religion/ kutakuwa mu nyumba ya Mungu: kwenda kutwanga magoti: na kusali: juu ya: revolution/ ni ile na mi nanipaka boga: kwa kuona namna gani dunia itazidi kuendelea: nalishinda akili ya kufika: pa ii fasi/ F: na ule muntu unao: anaonekana: ni muntu muzee? ni: T: ni muntu muzee: ni bantu bale: shee bote hapa tutazeka/ ni mi nitafika kule/ peut-être na mi nitafanyaka paka vile/ F: mm/ T: mm/ |
5. T: As I told you, I think when a person is going to enter a house of God there is not way but he is going to kneel. And he will begin to pray [Painting 100: "I Believe in Mobutu, Almighty Father"]. Instead of "In the name God" he will say "In the name of Mobutu." Something like: "I believe in Mobutu the Almighty Father."6 I am not talking nonsense when I speak of this because, right now, a little of this has already appeared. For instance, there is a song of the Catholic religion. It is being sung -- it is a song that says: [sings] "I praise the Lord, Almighty Father, Creator of heaven and earth." Now they changed it and some begin to say: [singing] "I praise Kuku Ngwendu, Mobutu, Sese Seko wa Zabanga." F: Mm-hmm. T: You understand, this is why I think that, when the future arrives, everyone will lose the path of religion. They will go to the house of God, kneel down, and pray for the Revolution. It scares me to envision how the world will progress. But I am unable to figure out what will happen at that point. F: The person who appears [on the picture], is that an old man? T: He is an old man. Those people -- all of us here will be old. I will get there and perhaps I am going to act just like that. F: Mm-hmm. T: Mm-hmm. |
| 6. F: kumbe ya mwisho: [Painting 101: The Four Positions] T: ya mwisho: eh? asa minawazia: kisha yake eh? kisha miaka mingi: F: mm/ T: sawa vile na: tableau ya kwanza na: naandika kama cent ans à Mobutu: nawaza bantu bote haba: kutakuwa bengine batakufwaka/ mais: tujue kama kuko: quatre positions ?nalisema: c'est que: kuko: quatre chemins/ F: mm/ T: mais: baba: ya revolution: ni Mobutu/ eeh? bon: shee hapa: tuko sawa batoto banazaliwa kwa muntu/ tuko nakomea/ siku baba atakufwaka: shee bote batoto tuta: tombokeana/ huyu atasema: mali ya baba/ huyu atasema: mali ya baba/ sawa vile: apa sasa/ tuko na forces eh: tuseme mu forces armée: tuko na FAZ: gendarmerie: brigade: na bapeuple vilevile/ asa: fa: mu FAZ: batalombaka asema: she tukuye: na: pouvoir/ bagendarmes: batasema she tukuye na: pouvoir/ puisque haba ni baparas na bale bengine/ bale ba: brigadiers/ babrigades/ F: mm/ T: batasema na shee tukuye na: pouvoir/ bapeuple: sawa bapoliticiens: na bengine: itarudia tu/ nazania: mutakuyaka: mambo moya munene ile na miye: nashinda kukuelezea: mais ni avenir: njo itatuelezeaka/ voilà/ njo mawazo yangu pale nilifika/ F: ...?... T: eeh/ F: eyo/ merci/ merci |
6. So now the final painting [Painting 101: The Four Positions]. T: The last one, right? Now I think that after that, after many years, right? F: Mm-hmm. T: As I wrote "A Hundred Years for Mobutu" on the first picture, I think that among all those people there will be some who will have died. But, I said, we should know that there are four positions, which means four roads. F: Mm-hmm. T: But the father of the Revolution is Mobutu, right? Alright. We here are like someone's children. We are growing up. The day our father dies we, all the children, will rise up against each other. This one is going to say: "[I get] the father's wealth." Another one says, "[I get] the father's wealth." For instance, right now, we have the armed forces, the FAZ. We have the gendarmerie, the brigades, and the people. What is going to happen is that there will be demands from the FAZ: "We should have the power." The gendarmes will say: "We should have the power." Because among them there are the paratroopers and others. And the brigadiers, the brigades. F: Mm-hmm. T: They are going to say: We should have the power. The people, for instance the politicians and some others -- it will be the same. I think there will be big trouble and I am unable to explain this to you. But it is the future, it will explain things to us. There you are, that is how far I got with my thoughts. F: ...?... T: Yes. F: Well, thank you. Thank you. |
| 7. F: tuko na: kintu kiloko minabakia naye/ sasa: kwa wee: kwako/ T: bon/ F: personnellement: unaenda: maendeleo namna gani? T: kutembea: F: wee una: unaona: unaona mara ingine maendeleo: T: mao: maendeleo ya inchi? F: non/ kwako/ T: ku nyumba yangu? F: ya artiste: T: o lala/ ii: c'est catastrophe eh? ku: mambo ya baartistes/ F: mm/ T: oui c'est juste: ata hivi tuko naonekana na weye: nabakia mi na sikitiko mingi sana: sawa vile ulesema: utaweza: pale ulinilomba avenir: F: mm/ T: c'est que uliona mufano nalikutumia ma: nili: nilikutumikia matableaux yako/ F: mm/ T: uliona mufano nalifwata: histoire/ na wee ulipima kama ni muntu wa akili peut-être: ataweza kunielezea akili haina paka masomo/ akili iko na: kichwa ya muntu: ataweza kuwa na akili/ ata kufunda: mais ataweza kuwa na akili/ mais minaona: itakuya nguvu sana/ sawa par example: kwenda kwako: peko: eh: ni jimu moya munene: napoteza: client moya munene/ munene sana/ sawa vile ulianza kunisaidia/ c'est que: shikuanza kusema juu ya kuwina/ mais ilikuwa juu ya kuisaidia: kula: et puis c'est fini/ c'est que avenir ya baartistes: ilitakufwa3 : zaidi: kwenda kwa: bazungu/ baclients yetu/ F: si ni mutapata clients kwabo: ku ba: bantu? T: kipande ya banduku eh? F: mm/ T: oui kipande ya banduku: itakuya nguvu sawa minakuelezea puisque nduku: anatamani tableau moya: mbili: wala tatu mu nyumba: juu ya kuangaria: kunaisha/ F: mm/ T: njo minazania/ F: mm/ na: hata bazungu ba: bangine banafanya vile/ shee tunaachana juu ma: marecherches kwa bazungu bengine/ beko na tableaux: T: non/ kuko bazungu bengine mingi makati balikuwa balianza kuuza tableaux: na: na roho moja/ ataweza kuuza tableaux inne: tano: shita: saba: anakulomba na ingine tena/ F: mm/ T: mais kwa sasa: ni nguvu sana/ na vie ya batu: inakuya nguvu vilevile/ F: mm/ [pauses] T: kama uko na kintu ingine ya kuniuliza nitakujibu/ F: eh: sina kintu kuuliza: paka kuwaza/ T: njo mawazo ile minawaza ni vile kwa lakini/ F: mm/ T: vie ya baartistes itakuya mu ma: mu ngu: itakuwa mu danger tuseme/ itakuwa mu atari/ F: bon/ |
7. There is still a small matter. As far as you yourself are concerned. T: Alright. F: Personally, how are you going to go on? T: Walking... F: Perhaps you have a vision of progress. T: Progress of the country? F: No, your own. T: In my home? F: As an artist... T: Oh lala, as far as artists are concerned, it is a catastrophe. F: Mm-hmm. T: Yes, we met with you, but [now] I stay behind with much sadness. It's like when you asked for [pictures of] the future you told me: You'll be able to do it. F: Mm-hmm. T: This was because you had seen how I worked on your paintings. F: Mm-hmm. T: You saw how I followed history. Perhaps you wanted to find out whether this is an intelligent person who can explain things to me. Intelligence is not only a matter of schooling, intelligence is in a person's head, he may just be intelligent. Even though he studies, [what counts is that] he may have intelligence. But I saw that it will be very difficult. For instance, with you going home this leaves a great gap and I lose an important customer. A very important one. Because you began to help me. I am not about to say it was for profit, rather it was to help me to [have enough to] eat, that's all.7 There simply will be no future for artists, especially when our white customers leave. F: Aren't you [artists] going to find customers among the people? T: On the side of our brothers? F: Mm-hmm. T: Well, on side of our brothers, it will be difficult. As I told you, a brother wants one picture, or even two or three, to look at them in his house, and that is all. F: Mm-hmm. T: That's what I think. F: Mm-hmm. Even other white people would act the same. Because of our research we are different from other whites who have paintings. T: No. When the Whites used to live here, many among them began to buy paintings in the same spirit. A person was capable of buying four pictures, five, six, seven, and would still ask for more. F: Mm-hmm. T: But right now, it's very difficult. And the life of the people is getting to be difficult, too. F: Mm-hmm [pauses]. T: If you have something else you want to ask me, I'll answer. F: No, there is nothing to ask, just to think about. T: At any rate, this is what the thoughts I thought are like. F: Mm-hmm. T: The life of artists will be in danger, let's say. It will be in danger. F: Alright. |
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1
This may be ESS kifundo, kifundo cha nguo, "the ankle".
[back to main text] 2 Should be tumuombe. The second -tu- could be an insertion of the adverb tu, "only, just". [back to main text] 3 ile itakufwa? [back to main text] |
1
The Swahili has alirudia, "he returned", meaning he left Kipushi and returned to Kinshasa or wherever.
[back to main text] 2 The Swahili text has the second person singular, "you would look." [back to main text] 3 Lit. "the revolution of the night," probably referring to the usual revolutionary jargon that went with many radio programs at the time. [back to main text] 4 Lit. "the thought I saw." [back to main text] 5 Lit. "it is something to get a little angry about." [back to main text] 6 In the Swahili text this phrase (the beginning of the Creed) is quoted in French. [back to main text] 7 The Swahili text is somewhat ambiguous. T. could also be saying: "It's not that I made a killing. But it was enough to eat." [back to main text] |
© Transcript & Translation by Johannes Fabian
Archived: 6 June 2000
Revisions: 24 August 2001 (lay-out toc changed, APS Volume number added), 31 October 2001 (ISSN aded)
